Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Sean, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. bvy

    bvy Member

    Messages:
    2,749
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What was originally promoted as a "happy accident" is now being positioned as having saved the entire business. Don't know if this is more marketing talk to further justify the diversion, or if the business is now relying on such fortuitous happenings to reach the finish line. I appreciate Dave's honesty, but I'm not sure I would have shared this tidbit.
     
  2. foen

    foen Member

    Messages:
    53
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    They are really boring...
     
  3. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

    Messages:
    2,955
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    P30 wasn't promoted as a happy accident. From the beginning, the founder (Nicola) wrote that he would wish to resurrect P30.
     
  4. bvy

    bvy Member

    Messages:
    2,749
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My quote not theirs. Even so, it wasn't part of the business plan to bring their color slide film to market.
     
  5. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

    Messages:
    947
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'm glad they have their P30 coming on line and available to sell. Any business needs money coming in the door. I'm looking forward to my color film but it's more important at the moment that they stay in business rather than rushing the color product out the door.

    I, US customer, have not received my P30 yet either, nor have I been charged. I'm sure it will show up before long and looking forward to it, too.

    Yeah, this delivery time for the P30 wouldn't be acceptable from an established manufacturer. But, FF is fledgling, barely, so I can be patient with them and I think we all should. Rather see them get there than lose out with poor product.
     
  6. Europan

    Europan Subscriber

    Messages:
    283
    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks, Dave. I know about the conversion situation with Film Ferrania and I know about the conversion situation with Kodak. In this respect Ferrania is better off than Kodak. Eastman-Kodak sold continuous perforators and intermittent perforators almost by the dozen or per weight. Would be interesting to know where those ended. Kodak can’t perforate 105 mm stock. Kodak don’t want to offer double-perfed 16mm stocks on their own terms. One literally has to force them to it although it was the Eastman-Kodak Company that introduced 16mm film perforated both edges in 1923. Kodak betrays users of their own great 16mm film cameras, the Ciné-Kodak Special and Special II. These and other cameras demand double-perfed stock to say nothing of the many possibilities double-perfed film offers for trick work, on editing, and with making archival duplicates. I have salvaged 16mm originals whose one perforation row is projector torn simply thanks to the existence of the original second row of holes. There are way more 16mm cameras with the regular aperture around than Super-16 ones.

    I believe in Film Ferrania, Baldini is an active photographer and Pagni knows some of lab procedures. Kodak wouldn’t even deem it necessary to publish that their New York City lab is open.
     
  7. Agulliver

    Agulliver Member

    Messages:
    445
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Shooter:
    35mm
    It was a happy accident that Nicola discovered a hand-written formula for P30 in a filing cabinet when things were being moved from the big Ferrania building to the LRF.

    Prior to that, Film Ferrania were asked if they'd bring back P30 and Nicola said then that they would like to but didn't have the formula.

    The plan was *always* to make a single large batch of E6 film using chemicals etc. left over from the 3M era, then start producing their own B&W film before formulating their own E6 films based on the 3M product.

    The only change is that they weren't able to produce those reward films (plus some left over to sell and make money to allow the project to continue) due to circumstances out of their control.

    Really...other than that window of opportunity to make the first batch...nothing has changed. They were always going to make and sell something other than the final E6 films in order to keep the money coming in. What do you think they are using to pay for heating, lighting, ventilation....wages? That kickstarter funds were explicitly stated to be for the purpose of saving the machinery necessary to carry out the project long term, move it and reinstall it in the LRF. That was done, and that money has gone. Nothing new there for those of us who bothered to read the original kickstarter info.
     
  8. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,674
    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Location:
    Stittsville, Ontario
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I would also guess that since the Local Government has also shelled out to carry out the re-activation of the LRF (new utilities and such) that they were probably wanting to see some paid sales and orders. Having the P30 pipeline of orders would help to keep them happy.
     
  9. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,460
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have a vague recollection that there were a couple of 220 only film cameras, but the problem with using them with 120 would most likely be primarily related to the frame counters.
     
  10. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,674
    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Location:
    Stittsville, Ontario
    Shooter:
    35mm
    There are many film backs that come in separate 120 or 220 versions. and so the 220 versions are now next to useless.
     
  11. rbultman

    rbultman Subscriber

    Messages:
    387
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2012
    Location:
    Louisville,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd definitely buy 220 if it was available in B&W, C-41, and E-6. I'd use it in my GA645 P&S and my GW690II. The convenience of not having to change rolls after 15 shots on vacation is nice. I almost never use my 6X9 for the same reason (although I don't take that one on vacation.) Come to think of it, I only have one camera that requires 120 film a Sears Tower 66.
     
  12. twelvetone12

    twelvetone12 Subscriber

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Shooter:
    35mm
  13. gkardmw

    gkardmw Subscriber

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Got my P30 film today

    USA! Cleveland Ohio area
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. gkardmw

    gkardmw Subscriber

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    More information:
    Order Number 9043x
    Date: March 15, 2017 3:20 pm
     
  16. Jeff L

    Jeff L Subscriber

    Messages:
    612
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Location:
    Toronto ON
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I received an email saying that my P30 has been shipped. Should be here in a few days I expect (hope).
     
  17. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Location:
    Coquitlam,BC Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I hope all you P30 shooters post your images here.
     
  18. jimjm

    jimjm Subscriber

    Messages:
    491
    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Location:
    San Diego CA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, look what arrived in the post today.... only 2 days after I received the shipping notification. :smile:

    Now the tough part is deciding which camera gets to play first...

    Not in a big hurry for the color film as I'm mostly a B/W shooter, but it's pretty cool to see some real product from Ferrania after all the wait.

    ferrania_p30.jpg
     
  19. TheToadMen

    TheToadMen Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,567
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Location:
    Netherlands, EU
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    That's a nice test panel you've got there! Use all three of them, starting from left to right. :wink:
     
  20. Cholentpot

    Cholentpot Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Nice tablecloth.

    The weights are pretty nice too.
     
  21. Brady Eklund

    Brady Eklund Subscriber

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Location:
    Eau Claire, WI
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    My Suggestion: Left Right Center

    Sounds like I'll probably get my film in a week or so!!! The problem is our lab doesn't have D76. Looks like I'll have to do some clip tests in HC-110 and see if I can figure out a time. I'll have to see if I can find any somewhat similar films and figure out if there's anything I can do to make them work. I could also just buy the right chemistry, but that wouldn't be very adventurous would it?
     
  22. jimjm

    jimjm Subscriber

    Messages:
    491
    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Location:
    San Diego CA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I hope to shoot a few rolls this weekend and will use Ferrania's recommended times for D-76, but will probably soup one roll in HC-110 also.

    I'll post my times/dilutions and some images here for those who may be interested. Should be fun!
     
  23. Brady Eklund

    Brady Eklund Subscriber

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Location:
    Eau Claire, WI
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I also have some tmax developer, which they do have a recommended time for(at 24C), but I'm afraid it's rather old. IIRC the early testing included HC-110, but the results were kind of muddy. Don't remember if they posted an example pic or not. I wonder how it would respond to being pushed a stop in HC-110. The grain seems rather fine as it is, and that's been my main problem when I've pushed films in HC-110 that aren't well suited for it.
     
  24. wlodekmj

    wlodekmj Subscriber

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Location:
    London, England
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The top left photo in the ones shown for batch P30-17-001 is described as processed in HC-110. Given the multi-layered nature of the image, it could perhaps be called muddy, but not because of the developer. Why do you say that fine grain is a problem for you - if you want coarse grain, then you can use a fast film or a developer that brings out the grain - or did you mean something else?
     
  25. Brady Eklund

    Brady Eklund Subscriber

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Location:
    Eau Claire, WI
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I was thinking of the wrong test picture. That actually looks pretty good. I wish they had provided a time rather than just saying it was "machine processed". I'll just have to do a clip test. I think the grain problems I've had have all been with pushed Ilford Delta films in HC-110. These are pretty unique and modern emulsions and are really nothing like P30, so it was dumb to think I'd run into the same issues.
     
  26. wlodekmj

    wlodekmj Subscriber

    Messages:
    38
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Location:
    London, England
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for your interesting and informative reply. I expect that many of us here will resort to clip tests, as the first 5 rolls will not be enough for comprehensive testing. A comparison with Delta 100 will show just how different they are - I have a couple of rolls waiting for the P30 to arrive.